Wednesday, September 20, 2006


So the Mormons were a half hour late last night. We talked some more about 2 Nephi, starting around verse 22. and how Mormons require transgression and God who commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, and also to not touch the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Nephi says that they had to lose their innocence to know joy and to have children. So God is commanding them to not lose their innocence and also commanding them to do something that requires their loss of innocence. I don't like this. I believe they were capable of procreation in their pre-Fall state. The Mormons also justify these conflicting commandments by saying He was giving them an opportunity to use their agency, and if they hadn't transgressed the plan of salvation, which was prepared before the foundations of the world, wouldn't be able to start rolling. I say that is victim fishing and that sin would have been finished with a "No!" by Eve's free agency with no need for the plan of salvation.

So that is where we were at then end of a half hour. As promised, I asked them what their goal was from meeting with me. They want what they always want, for me to read and pray over the veracity of the Book of Mormon. I told them I have already done that and I really don't want to, but I have it if I do have that hankering. They then asked me what my goal was in meeting with them. This surprised me, but I replied that I find it important to give people a chance to have their say, and paraphrased this quote from Keats:

The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing -- to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts. -John Keats, poet (1795-1821)

That seemed to satisfy them and after closing prayer they were off.

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At September 20, 2006 10:54 PM, Blogger Voth said...

You are one odd boy. It's good to have goals though.

At September 22, 2006 4:02 PM, Blogger Karen said...

you're just toying with their emotions. I think I'll hit something else this week and I was toying with the idea of early service at piedmont, let me know if you're up for that kind of adventure. That goes for you 2 voth.

At September 23, 2006 6:15 PM, Blogger Cerise said...

"Victim fishing." =)

At September 26, 2006 8:42 PM, Blogger Michael Covarrubias said...

I would have liked to pursue the question of what they want. What do they believe regarding the spreading of their gospel? I'm sure at some point in your previous session of meetings with them you entertained the topic of salvation and/or its various forms. Do they feel a need to simply share or a need to convert as well? Would they state it so graciously as a simple interest in seeing you (and others of course) accept the truth -- as defined by their faith? Might they have to admit that because of the history of your investigation with them they see you as a possible convert and their nubile maidens are looking for a few more good men? Or is it just natural for any culture to keep score of "those with us" vs "those not with us" in an attempt to find justification through accord?

At October 04, 2006 6:23 PM, Blogger Jeff said...

It's good to be reading your blog again!


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